ATLANTA—In a creative studio garage humming with the chrome glow of vintage automobiles, East Point, Georgia, became a stage for dialogue on October 8 as Grammy-winning artist and activist Michael Render, better known by his stage name Killer Mike.
Opened his doors to Student Minister Ishmael Muhammad, National Assistant to the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan and a son of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Eternal Leader of the Nation of Islam.
What followed was a sweeping, in-depth exchange on the “Conversate with Killer Mike” podcast—a dialogue that moved from the 1995 Million Man March and Holy Day of Atonement called by the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan—to the unseen global forces now shaping America’s destiny. Student Min. Ishmael was in Atlanta as the Nation of Islam convened the 31st Anniversary of the historic Million Man March.
“You’re one of the most powerful men in our community,” Killer Mike said as the cameras rolled, “but you’ve never carried yourself like you’re above anyone.” It was a moment of genuine respect, the kind that comes from years of watching the Nation of Islam transform Black men and women with discipline, structure, and purpose.
Student Min. Ishmael received the praise with humility. “We don’t see ourselves as greater than our brother or sister because we’ve gained knowledge,” he said. “At the end of the day, we are all children of God,” he said.
Several themes guided the exchange during the program: educating our children, redemption behind prison walls, how to eat to live, doing for self, unity, Malcolm X, and more.
When asked to introduce himself, Student Min. Ishmael offered no titles beyond service, saying he is “a human being among 7.5 billion on the planet,” and “blessed to be a son of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and Mother Tynnetta Muhammad, and blessed to serve as National Assistant Minister to Minister Farrakhan.”
The conversation quickly turned to the Nation’s core teaching: knowledge of self. “The first thing is: who are you?” Student Min. Ishmael said. “That knowledge of self and knowledge of God is the key to our return to God and to ourselves.”
He argued that mainstream education and media strip Black people of identity, leaving children unable to respect themselves—and therefore unable to respect one another. “If you don’t respect yourself,” he said, “you won’t respect your brother or your sister any more than you know how to love yourself.”
Killer Mike connected this to a broader pattern: the same systems that undereducated Black children also keep poor White communities uninformed, weaponizing ignorance to maintain a social hierarchy. “We should see solidarity across those lines,” Killer Mike said.
Student Min. Ishmael shared a chilling example: several years ago, in speaking to students in Gary, Indiana, he found that none had been taught about the transatlantic slave trade. Some school districts now teach that Black Americans “migrated.”
“When you deprive a people of their history, it’s like cutting a tree at its roots,” Student Min. Ishmael said. “How can it grow?”
A central theme during the podcast was the distinction between a nation and an organization.
“An organization is one part; a nation is the whole,” Student Min. Ishmael explained. “That’s why it’s not called an Islamic organization. It’s the Nation of Islam. We build nations, not organizations.” He pointed to the Million Man March as proof—millions setting aside religious and organizational differences to stand as one.
Student Min. Ishmael credited his mother, Tynnetta Muhammad—writer, lecturer, and world traveler—for shaping his worldview. She taught that worship means nothing without service and that a divine thread unites humanity.
Her travels took the family to Mexico, where young Ishmael learned Spanish and encountered cultures that broadened his understanding of Black, Latino, and Indigenous unity. “Once you go to Mexico, to Europe, to Africa, it expands your horizon,” he said. “You’re not narrow in your thinking anymore.”
He described a global power structure: a small elite, a middle class that serves as a buffer, and a mass of people kept uninformed.
“No man can rule over you except he has a greater knowledge than you,” he said. “That’s why real knowledge is feared—it opens the mind.” He noted that Nation of Islam students often complete their education years ahead of peers,
Evidence that mainstream schooling prolongs learning rather than accelerating it. “Real education never makes you docile, helpless, or dependent,” he said. “It unlocks the creative power the Creator gave you.”
The conversation then turned to the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s Teachings on the Mother Plane—a massive human-built craft described in the Bible book of Ezekiel. Student Min. Ishmael noted that even Pentagon files reference a “mother craft” or “ship” that releases “smaller probes.”
“These crafts hover near military installations for a reason,” he said. “There are forces on this planet that, left unchecked, would destroy all of humanity.” He argued this is why Minister Farrakhan speaks with such boldness: “You cannot speak with that kind of conviction unless you know God and the power behind you.”
Student Min. Ishmael also addressed long-standing misconceptions about the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s domestic life. He explained the Quranic context for multiple wives and emphasized that every child born of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad and his wives ultimately stood and stands with Minister Farrakhan.
He also spoke personally about growing up without knowing his father until age seven, facing rejection and colorism—even within the Nation of Islam. “I grew up with a color complex,” he said.
“Not from the outside world, but from my own community.” Only recently, he said, did he feel ready to publicly call the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad “my father,” a moment that nearly moved him to tears during the podcast conversation.
Student Min. Ishmael also clarified that Malcolm X did not leave the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad because of domestic issues. Malcolm X already knew his teacher had multiple wives.
The real tension came from Malcolm’s public comments on President John F. Kennedy’s assassination, made against the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s direct instructions for his ministers not to speak on the president’s death. Still, the Nation of Islam honors Malcolm’s contributions. “No good deed is wasted,” he said. “Malcolm continues to lead people toward truth.”
Killer Mike echoed civil rights leader Dick Gregory’s assertion that the U.S. government—not the Nation of Islam—was responsible for Malcolm’s assassination. Student Min. Ishmael connected the assassinations of Malcolm X and Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., arguing that each was tied to the U.S. government’s fear of unified Black political power.
The conversation closed with reflections on how the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s Teachings—from life on Mars to eating one meal a day and fasting—were mocked for decades, only to be validated by modern science. “We’ve been taught to wait for outside validation,” Student Min. Ishmael said. “That mindset has to end. We already carry the answers.”
He argued that the path forward is collaboration—setting aside divisions and building as though no one is coming to save us. “When opportunity arrives,” he said, “we need to be ready to meet it, not scrambling to catch up.”
Killer Mike concluded the program emphasizing, “God’s love doesn’t skip anyone. Noah drank. Job suffered, lost everything, and started again. If God walked with broken men before, why not us? Wouldn’t our nation deserve a savior?
Why wouldn’t God speak directly to a people stripped of their true history, their true names, their true power? That’s the message I bring to my audience: stand in your worth.”—Michael Z. Muhammad, Contributing Writer
