[Editor’s Note: This article was published online October 15, 2015.]

On the marquee of a Church here in Phoenix, Arizona are these words: “Two people cannot both love God and hate each other.”

This is the third installment of the interview I conducted with the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan on October 9, 2005, in Phoenix, Arizona. When I asked the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan: “Might this lead to the presentation of the program to Congress?”

This ended what I had in my mind for the interview. I had even received an extra answer to an extra question—the last one. So I turned off the tape recorder. At this point, I thought to share the primary thoughts that occurred to me, over the months, as I watched and listened to him, especially when he went into the homestretch of his effort to generate the Millions More Movement on the Mall. I did not intend to put them on the tape.


When I mentioned the first one, Minister Farrakhan immediately responded and I quickly turned the tape recorder back on, not knowing what he was going to say. I realized that this was going to force me to go deeper than I originally intended in my commentary to come after the interview ended.

Here is what I said to Minister Farrakhan that was not on the tape, and his response that was taped.

Jabril Muhammad: The Honorable Elijah Muhammad had a way, at certain times, of first saying something to you and then interrupting it with something else; then returning to the first thing he was saying.

He did it smoothly, not brusquely, harshly or abruptly but in a natural manner, as if he wasn’t doing what he was doing.

However, it would not fully dawn on you until much later. You would get and think on or act according to the part that was interrupted. Then you would forget it. But the part that he used to interrupt, the first part, is the part you would not forget. But it would not come up in your mind until later; often quite a while later. It would also be as clear in your head as when he first told it to you.

The Honorable Elijah Muhammad’s words to me in May 1966 that were one of the factors that led to this interview, that I shared with Minister Farrakhan when the tape recorder was off were:

“Master Fard Muhammad took me into the mind of Yakub and showed me how the idea of devil arose in his mind. And then, of recent, Brother, He took me into the mind of the first God and showed me how the idea of universe arose in His mind.”

Minister Farrakhan: It seems to me that what he said to you, that you could not remember anything else, but that was to stay in your mind for a reason. It’s because we are at the time when those two Gods, and the way the ideas arose in their minds—is necessary to understand, because we’re now at the time of the God Who is going to make all things new.

He wanted his chief helper, upon whose shoulders He’s going to put all powers, to know how that idea arose in the mind of the Originator of the heavens and the earth and how the idea of devil arose in the mind of Yakub, because now we are the new Yakub and Yakub’s history is for us to study how to make a god, but it’s the reverse of how you make a devil.

You begin making devil by going among the dissatisfied. You begin by telling lies. You begin by making your laborers liars and then murderers. Over time the lie and the murder can be birthed into the nature of the people that you are making. So that’s what a devil is. He’s a liar and a murderer and an opponent of the God of truth and life.

Now you’re going to make a god. So you reverse the process. But you start with the same group, the dissatisfied. So you find among them those most willing to suffer for the sake of change. Then you start by telling them the truth; which gives them life, spiritual and physical. Then the more they love the truth and love the life that truth dictates, they become the willing participants in the making of a people that will bring into existence the new heaven, the new earth, that whole new civilization.


This is the final part of my interview with the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan on October 9, 2005, in Phoenix, Arizona. This interview grew out of my desire to share with others his (and my) response to this question: Who, and with what power, motivated Minister Farrakhan in his call for The Millions More Movement?

There is the most intimate and profound relationship between the love, wisdom and the power in the experiences that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad shared with his teacher, Master Fard Muhammad, prior to 1975, and Minister Farrakhan’s call for The Millions More Movement.

The power in the Minister’s call is due to the fact that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad has been raised to the position of the greatest eminence and influence to which a servant of God could be raised.

Again, there is the deepest connection between the authority of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the rise of Minister Farrakhan. The public will soon come to see Allah’s reasons for Minister Farrakhan’s rise to ever greater degrees of eminence, right in the midst of the enemies of freedom, justice and equality. They will come to see his rise as a manifest sign of the eminence (or glory) to which God desires to raise His people.

Here is the conclusion of the short (and I hope interesting) interview I conducted with Minister Farrakhan for the purpose of showing what sits under and energizes Minister Farrakhan’s call for The Millions More Movement and which will continue to energize and invigorate this movement until it accomplishes it’s objectives—and beyond.

Minister Farrakhan: So the God wisely chose a people that were empty vessels. He didn’t have to empty us. We didn’t have anything [wisdom] in us. Then He begins pouring into us that truth that’s embodied in the idea of the new; the idea of the new heaven and the new earth that is embodied in our lessons.

Over time, the dissatisfied would come to the truth, put in a form that appeals to their child like minds, but as they mature and grow, the idea would grow in them, it’s in their DNA in every generation getting them closer and closer to what the God envisioned; a Nation of Gods.”

Brother Jabril: So we are in that—what’s the word?

Minister Farrakhan: We’re in like the door. That’s the best way I can describe it. ‘I am the door,’ Jesus said. Well the door means you exit out of one thing and you enter into another. We’re at the time of the end of one thing and in the beginning of another and that’s a very dangerous point, because you can go either way. You could fall backward into the old of, in the difficulty of perusing the new. Or if your heart is the right material, you’ll be strong enough to enter the door, close the door on the old and remain fascinated by and fastened to the new.

Brother Jabril: So Michael comes right in the start of the new beginning. He is called a protector of his people; a great prince; a champion. He is divinely placed in the position that he occupies. He’s put in this position, right in the—I’m trying to think of the word—

Minister Farrakhan: “Nexus.”

Brother Jabril: “That’s it! The nexus! This makes his stand produce what the book says it would produce. According to the work of scholars, in Strong’s Concordance, a major part of his name means: ‘Who is God?’

We talked a little bit about this on the phone, when you were in Atlanta, a few weeks ago, when I raised the question: Why would a man be given a name that’s defined by a question?

Minister Farrakhan: Because what he does, answers the question. Because everybody believes that there is a God—most everybody. Most everybody believes that the One, Who created the heavens and the earth and all therein, is the God.

Most everybody in the world understands and has felt and been manipulated or moved or destroyed by the power of the ruling powers of the present world. As they see the present world in trouble and they see that they too are in trouble and in a time of trouble everyone starts calling on their God. This is as it was with Jonah when he was in the ship and the waves started battering the ship, everybody started praying.

But their prayers were of none effect until they found Jonah in the ship. Then they asked him to pray. Then when he prayed (because he knew the God was after him) it was effective. So it was his prayer that brought peace to the troubled waters.

More next issue, Allah willing